An engineer's report on the Welcome Center done prior to the Vote for the purchase of the Copper Health Center was recently found by the investigations of a group of Residents. The report indicates that the Welcome Center is structurally sound, yet the premise for the purchase for the Copper Center was based on its need to be 'razed' or bulldozed. These Residents sent this new information via a mass email on Sep. 6, 2024  to the Homeowners. Then the Board Pres. sent a rebuttal to it that contained mis-information.

Read the Residents letter on the TOPICS Page: 'The $4.5 Million Dollar Lie'

Read the correspondences and commentaries on the subject below.

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Rebuttal To the Resident's Letter About the Engineer's Report of Nov.'21

From Board Pres. to Residents:

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Fellow Residents,

 

An unauthorized email was sent, unsolicited, to residents with information pertaining to the Copper Center (CC) and the Welcome Center (WC). The unsolicited email represents fewer than 10% of our community, who cannot get enough resident lots to sign a petition for the board to have a vote to sell the CC or recall a board member. Less than 10% of residents are attempting to typify the BOD and administration as looking incompetent, portray us as liars and manipulative, and are trying to influence you into believing their slanted rhetoric. There is proof that a group of less than 10% of residents have meetings to plot strategies on how to disrupt SCOV and influence residents. This continued behavior is negatively affecting residents, staff, potential buyers and could eventually devalue our homes. Their actions are polarizing our wonderful community. Please do not succumb to biting the apple offered by this small, but vocal, group of residents. 

 

The majority of the unfounded claim, in the unsolicited email to you, was that the CC purchase was presented to residents with the fact it was largely based on the structural integrity of the WC, which is not true. As residents, we know of our limited building space with no storage areas, overcrowding in the Artisan Center and numerous club areas, which was not mentioned in the unsolicited email. The chance for our Association to purchase an additional 22,600 square feet of building, and 1.2 acres of land, would have been a missed opportunity for our community had we not bought it.

 

The structural assessment dated November 29, 2021, cited in the unsolicited email, was requested by administration due to floating floors, cracked floor tiles and cracking on interior walls of the

WC. It was NOT a request for a report of the entire building but limited to a small section of the WC. The November 2021 report DID NOT say the building was structurally sound, made of concrete block, OR that is, was a permanent structure, as was falsely claimed in the unsolicited email. Not until the structural assessment was done of the entire WC in June 2023, did we find out the WC is a Concrete Modular Unit (CMU). Isn't that great news? We now have a structurally sound building that we don't have to tear down or spend millions of dollars to renovate, and millions of dollars will not be needed to expand the Artisan Center. Purchasing the CC was a win-win achievement for our HOA.

 

There is no proof, as claimed in the unsolicited email, that management knew a year before the CC came up for sale, the condition of the entire building. The November 2021 report states a visual inspection of portions of the building was done and numerous speculations stated by the inspector are:

Roofing appears to be in good condition

Drains within the mechanical well are believed to run down interior walls

It appears the slab is heaving along a slab joint

The roof is believed to consist of prefabricated wood trusses supported by light gauge steel stud walls

A visual review was done of the exterior of the building

I do not believe significant settlement of the exterior walls and foundation have taken place

The slab on grade is considered non-structural

The most likely cause of cracking is moisture below the existing concrete slab on grade

 

We want to emphasize again, the purchase of the CC was NOT largely based on the structural integrity of the WC, but the quantitative need for more space within our community.

 

The BOD and administration have and will always be a source of truthful information.

 

Respectfully,

Board of Directors and General Manager

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_____________________________________

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Rebuttal From Residents to Board Pres.:

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Dear Mr. President,

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We, the concerned residents who sent an email informing residents about the 2021 engineering report on the Welcome Center, are writing to correct multiple false statements in your “A Message From Your Board of Directors” email blast to the community yesterday morning.

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We are a group of five residents who have long been active in the community, via committees, clubs, neighborhood gatherings and more. There are two false statements in your assertion that our email “represents fewer than 10% of our community, who cannot get enough resident lots to sign a petition for the board to have a vote to sell the CC or recall a board member.”

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First, we represent only ourselves and are not part of any 10% “group”. Second, it is not true that we have been unable to obtain “enough resident lots to sign a petition” since there has not been any petition yet circulated. We have not been involved with any petition, but the outcome of such a petition, should it actually be circulated in the future, is to be determined. We request that you immediately correct these false statements in writing.

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Your further assertions that we are engaged in:

“Meetings to plot strategies on how to disrupt our HOA”

“Behavior …[that] could eventually devalue our homes”

"Enticing residents to “succumb to biting the apple” (i.e., represent evil in the story of Adam and Eve)

are incorrect and inflammatory.

 

They were written with the purpose of personally attacking us and inciting residents. We do not plot to disrupt our HOA. Our goal is not to devalue our homes. Indeed, the financial impact on our Capital Reserve of the Copper Center and its significant renovation costs may be the factor to impact home values. We are expressing our concerns as is our right utilizing facts that we have before us. We request that you immediately correct these false statements in writing.

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Your statement that the 2021 structural engineer’s report “DID NOT say the building was structurally sound” is contradicted by the report’s conclusions. This report clearly relates to the building and it states unequivocally, ”The wall and slab cracking are primarily aesthetic and do not pose a structural concern… all of the structural walls appear to be in good condition.” You need to correct your statement regarding the report’s conclusion.You have not answered the question posed to you by us and other residents as to why this report and its conclusion regarding the structural soundness of the building was not brought forward to correct the misinformation presented by leadership and management prior to the CC vote.

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Your Message email states “There is no proof, as claimed in the unsolicited email, that management knew a year before the CC came up for sale, the condition of the entire building.” In fact, our email does not state that management knew the condition of the entire building. Instead we do state the engineer’s conclusions relating to the structural elements, and we state that management had the report a year prior to the CC vote. We question why this information was not shared with the community. Your response to the community should answer this question.

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Instead, what was shared with the community at the time was utterly unsupported detail about the modular nature of the WC and costs to haul it away:

“Q: How much will it cost to remove the Welcome Center?

A: The Welcome Center is eight truck loads, four double wide modular sections, that were trucked into the site and connected.

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The method of removal would be to disconnect the modular sections and truck them away. The estimated cost of this type of removal would be approximately $5 per sq. ft. *11,44. 500 sq. ft. = $57,500.”

Source: Purchase of Copper Health Building, Questions and Answers, v 4.0-12.20.2022

Again, we request that you immediately correct the false and inflammatory statements in your email “A Message from Your Board of Directors” of September 8, 2023. We plan to post this letter.

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Signed,

Five Concerned Residents (names omitted for this site)

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Rebuttal From A Concerned Resident  (posted on our private community facebook group page)

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NOTE: Any opinions expressed in this post are purely my own.

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The Board President's response to the community letter regarding the Copper building purchase is a predictable soup of dubious data, fuzzy math, rationalizations, and vicious insinuations intended to intimidate any resident who might say that anything about the community or its management is less than perfect.

The President begins by saying the email message was "unauthorized." The email list used for the mailing is open to all residents. So whose "authorization" do we need to use it?

The President's rebuttal makes the claim that only 10% of residents are causing all the (so-called) "trouble" -- that is, by daring to question the wisdom of buying the Copper building. In fact, he uses the 10% figure three times in his attempt to discredit the email message.

In fact, though, 600 households voted against the Copper purchase the first time. That's roughly 25% of the 2,500 households here, way more than 10%. The 10% number seems to have been pulled out of thin air.

And some of the residents who voted for the purchase might have voted the other way if they knew all the facts that have come out recently. How many? Nobody knows.

The President makes some quibbles about exactly what the Nov. 29, 2021 engineering report on the Welcome Center says. Regardless of small and insignificant details, the message of that report is completely clear: The Welcome Center is a sound building.

The President makes much of the fact that the 2021 report states its findings as opinions. That's exactly what engineers are paid to do in such reports - offer their best professional judgment. Is the President or any other members of the board prepared to challenge the judgment of the professional engineers who prepared the report?

All statements presented as fact in the email message have been thoroughly checked and are supported by documents. Also, before the message was published, the General Manager was invited to answer the questions it raised, but he declined to do so.

The President seems to believe there is some kind of shadowy cabal conspiring to tear down the community by throwing around insinuations and lies. The authors of the email message are only concerned citizens raising fair and legitimate questions about an important community issue.

And all of us signed our names to it, so we are not operating under cover of darkness. We wield no daggers and we wear no cloaks. We are your neighbors. We love this community, which is why we offer constructive criticism to help it remain the great place it is.

Can't we all just get along?

This will be my last post for a while on this subject. I think I've said what I need to say. I'm not going to get into an endless back-and-forth with board members or management. I've got places to go, people to see and pickleball to play.

Signed,

Concerned Resident (name omitted for this site)

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